City Council Meeting 10/13/2026 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlbE0h0EG58 Automatic captions; not audio-verified. [3:42] Evening. I'd like to call to order the city council meeting for the city of Highland Park, Illinois. Today is October 13th, 2026. Will the clerk please call the role? [3:53] Council member Center, present. Council member Buckman here. [3:56] Council member Ross here. [3:57] Council member Tapia, present. Council member liter here. Council member Bloomberg, Mayor Roering here. We have a quorum. Everyone, please rise for the pledge of allegiance. [4:07] I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation [4:17] under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [4:26] Uh, may I have a motion to approve the minutes of the regular city council meeting held September 23rd, 2026 and the closed session of the regular [4:33] meeting of the city council held 20 on September 28th, 2026. So moved. Second. All in favor say I. [4:40] I. Thank you. Those minutes are approved. May I have a motion to approve the warrant list? So moved. Is there a second? Second. [4:46] Any comments or questions on the warrant list? Hearing none, will the clerk please call the vote? Council member center. Hi. Council member Breckman. I. [4:54] Council member Ross. I. Council member Topia. I. Council member Lawer. I. Mayor Roodering. [4:59] I. Six eyes, no nays. And the warrant list is approved. How many people in here have are in the third grade? [5:06] Anybody? Anybody in the third grade? [5:09] Anybody? A few of you are older than the third grade. [5:13] Okay. Thank you. So to those who have come through um we have gone through this as third graders to go through how [5:21] the city council meeting works way faster when we're actually doing it right than when I explained it. So we're almost to the good part and I really [5:30] appreciate your patience. But the warrant list was approving paying the bills for the city. We kind of have to make sure we take care of that. So now [5:38] we're going to move on to the report of the mayor and this is where the good stuff happens. So, thank you for hanging in there with us. [clears throat] We [5:45] have no appointments tonight. We have one proclamation tonight, but before we do, we have some prizes to award. So, we [5:54] are going to recognize the FIFA right to win a soccer ball contest winners. And yes, thank you for raising your hand. I [6:02] am so glad everybody is here, young and old, to get their soccer balls. Where did they go? They're right there. Okay. [6:10] So, this summer in celebration of the 2026 FIFA World Cup, thanks to the US Conference of Mayors, the city received [6:18] a number of commemorative soccer balls, most of which we shared with our sister governments like Northshore School District 112 and Highland Park High [6:27] School and the Park District cuz we figured they could use some soccer balls, too. But this summer, we launched a writing contest and we invited [6:34] residents of all ages to tell us why they love Highland Park. How cool is that? Or you could write a poem [6:41] celebrating kindness. And we were so impressed with the variety of responses that we received. We read about favorite [6:48] teachers and parks, stories of pride in our hometown, and my favorite, the importance of caring and being [6:55] welcoming. And so, we're super happy to recognize the winners today with a certificate and the soccer ball. So when [7:04] I read your name, please come up. This part's called the deis, by the way. [7:10] Please come up and stand in front of the deis and we're going to take a picture of everybody. So when I call your name, please come forward. [7:20] City manager Newkerk will give you your soccer ball and then I'm going to give you a certificate and then just stay here and like smile at everybody. But if [7:28] you're feeling weird, like if you're one of the first ones, you don't have to smile the whole time, but we'll take a picture and that's when you can smile. [7:34] Um, okay. So, I'm going to call out names and hopefully some people are here. I believe they are. Cindy Bean, [7:43] [laughter] [7:52] congratulations. And thank you. [7:54] Stay right here, Cindy. Thank you, Sean Collins. [7:59] [applause] [8:11] All right, Jill Doherty. [8:14] Jill Doherty is not here. All right, Lucy Ellis. [8:19] Yay, Lucy. [applause] Thank you. I like your shirt, too. Okay. [8:28] Thank you, Gabe Frerieded. [8:32] [applause] [8:44] [applause] [8:56] Thank you. Jonas Hersshfeld. [9:00] Jonas, are you here? Okay, we will get you your soccer ball. Herb Cayman, no Herb. Okay, Herb. Elliot Donaldson Kramer. [9:11] [applause] [9:12] Congratulations. Thank you. Elliot K. Crider. [9:21] Okay. Other Elliott is not here. Dearra Lee. Dearra Lee. [9:30] [applause] [9:36] Thank you so much. Josie Meyer. [9:42] [applause] [9:49] Thank you, Juliana Rush. [applause] Nice soccer ball necklace. Love it. [10:01] Okay, Alice Soliv. [10:05] [applause] [10:12] Thank you for your body. That's okay. Uh Ivan Velasquez. [10:20] No, not here. Cameron Watson, are you here? Cameron. [10:26] Okay. Well, thank you to all of these wonderful writers in our community. On your certificate, it says what you wrote [10:33] about. Um, I think we want everybody wants to take pictures of you. So, Gita, do we have a thought on how to do this in the best way? Council members, please stand. [10:45] Yeah. Come here and stand behind them. Yeah. [10:51] [laughter] [11:00] [snorts] [11:02] Okay. Trinity. [11:09] [laughter] [11:26] Want to make sure [clears throat] people can see Alice. [11:46] All right. Okay. Few more. [11:59] Awesome. All right, everybody say soccer. [12:08] [laughter] [12:15] Okay. Well, you guys are welcome to stand there. Thank you. Thank you. [12:23] Thank you. [12:26] Y [12:28] [applause] [12:31] Oh, yeah. Congratulations everybody. Very excited. [12:37] [laughter] [12:40] What a what an interesting diverse group. No. Yeah. [12:58] I was [13:00] [laughter] [13:05] Okay. Go Highland Park and go soccer. [13:09] [laughter] [13:10] Wonderful. All right. Thanks everybody for coming. [13:15] Um, every year on October 14th, we are delighted to celebrate the community leaders of Sister Cities International. [13:22] Highland Park is fortunate to be home to dedicated volunteers who really work hard to build strong relationships with [13:29] our three sister cities, Modina, Italy, Portao, Mexico, and Eurokam Israel. I have a proclamation to share. [13:39] Whereas Sister Cities International was founded as a presidential initiative by President Dwight D. Eisenhower on September 11th, 1956 at the White House [13:47] Conference on Citizen Diplomacy to create more community-led global relationships so that people of different cultures could appreciate their differences and build partnerships [13:56] that would lessen the chance of new international conflicts. And whereas Sister Cities International is a fitting occasion, sorry, Sister Cities [14:04] International Day is a fitting occasion to commemorate the impact that this organization has made in building bridges across nations, cities, and [14:12] communities around the globe in order to create and sustain world peace. Whereas, there's no better day to celebrate the birth of the modern sister cities [14:20] movement than on the birthday of its founder, President Dwight D. Eisenhower on October 14th. And whereas Sister Cities International currently has [14:28] members in 1,800 communities in 138 countries on six continents. And whereas the city of Highland Park is proud to be [14:37] part of the global network with sister city partnerships in Porttoarda, Mexico, Bodna, Italy, and Yuram, Israel. And [14:45] whereas Highland Park Sister Cities Foundation is recognized as 2026 best overall program, winning this award for [14:53] the fifth time in 11 years by Sister Cities International. That's amazing. [14:59] And 2026 Champion of Youth by Illinois Sister Cities Association. [15:05] And whereas sister city relationships include educational, economic, cultural, municipal, and humanitarian assistance [15:12] exchange programs that are mutually beneficial to each community. And where Sister C's international day is a call to action for Highland Parks residents [15:20] and citizens of the world to come together to celebrate the importance of community's continued commitment to supporting a more peaceful and [15:27] prosperous future through continued people-to-people exchanges. And whereas Sister Cities International Day is an opportune time for Highland Park and [15:36] cities across the world to show how powerful humanity can be when communities unite to promote peace, progress, and prosperity for a better [15:44] world. Now therefore, I, Nancy Rotary, mayor of the city of Highland Park and the city council of the city of Highland Park, do hereby declare October 14th, [15:52] 2026 a sister cities international day and encourage all residents to learn more about Highland Park's sister cities [16:01] foundation. And I just have to say whether supporting robotics or education or facilitating an international [16:09] information exchange like the one that we just hosted. I'm looking back at you Ron Bannon in the back. We talked about water in English and in Spanish thanks [16:18] Duolingo. And we were able to move and bring the world a little bit closer to home. So tonight, we're really pleased [16:26] to welcome Highland Park Sister Cities Foundation President Carol Wolf, Vice President Rick Wolf, and Roa Pierce to [16:33] accept the proclamation and share an update on HPSCF's activities. And Matt Pestine, you can do something too if you [16:40] want to. And we would like to invite you up to the podium for the proclamation. Thank you so much. [16:48] Thank you. [16:49] Well, on behalf of the Highland Park Sister Cities Foundation, I want to express our gratitude for this proclamation. I want to acknowledge the [16:58] members of our um board who are here tonight. Many wanted to be here, but very busy group we have. Um so, you [17:06] mentioned Roa Pierce who is um I I don't even know how to describe Roa. Her husband Dan founded our [17:15] foundation when he was mayor. And I say that Dan is the soul of the Highland Park Sister Cities Foundation and Roda [17:24] who was our first president is the heart of our foundation. [17:28] So and she's our current secretary. Matt Pastine is the vice president in charge of our relationship with Yer. I heard it [17:36] should now be called Yor Yoruka. So we'll see. Okay. [17:41] And my husband Rick vice president in charge of Porta. [17:45] So few prepared comments. The city of Highland Park includes vibrancy as one of its six priorities. Clearly the [17:54] Highland Park Sister Cities Foundation exemplifies that priority. Since you already acknowledged all of our awards [18:02] and and successes, um I thought I would just review some of the things we've done this year. So as every year, we [18:10] maintain the Pierce Garden and Sister Cities Park in the center of downtown. [18:14] The garden, which boasts the sculpture of the whale that was a gift from the sister city of Port of Aiarda, honors Mayor Dan Pierce, who founded our sister [18:24] cities foundation 38 years ago. We partnered with our community robotics team, Meta Infiniti, to create [18:31] opportunities for students in Highland Park to collaborate with students in our sister cities. The collaboration with [18:38] Porttoarda resulted in Highland Park students being invited to participate in the World Robotics Competition in Osaka, [18:47] Japan. And Yumi was really instrumental with that Japanese connection and we're very grateful for that. We created a [18:55] student architecture exchange where students in Highland Park and students from Port of Ayarda shared architectural challenges and explored important [19:03] buildings in each city. And that project culminated in the creation of a YouTube channel. We partnered with Eric [19:10] Reinhardt and the Lake County States Attorney's Office to create a legal exchange which was done virtually with the University of Guadalajara. And this [19:19] year, because that was so successful, we're in the process of working once again with the state's attorney's office [19:26] um on a program to support a an initiative for women's justice in Port of Ayarda. We welcomed a delegation from [19:34] our sister city, Mina, Italy, to honor Dansante Bartali, who was born in Highland Park, ordained a priest in [19:43] Morina, and is honored by the United States Holocaust Memorial in Washington DC for his work protecting Jews, Jewish [19:52] Italians, and resisting fascism during World War II. [19:57] After his release from Mouthousand concentration camp, he founded Cheetah de Regatsi which is Boytown in Morina [20:04] and we are now working with that organization on a variety of programs and we're off to a great start this year. As you mentioned just this month, [20:13] we hosted a delegation from CPAL, the organization in Port of Viarda that provides portable water, sewage, and sanitation services for Port of Aiarda. [20:25] And I just have to say we are so fortunate in Highland Park to have such incredibly talented and passionate [20:32] people dedicated to providing our community with clean water. Thank you public works director Ron Bannon. Thank [20:40] you. Finance and customer service manager Christine Accassiano, water plant superintendent Don Jensen, [20:48] Northshore Water Reclamation Executive Director Dan Miller, and director of laboratory services at the water [20:56] reclamation plant Chuck Bowden, and water reclamation trustee Roa Pierce. [21:02] Once again, we're partnering with Sunset Boots. This October 24th, um, we're having another Parmesan Region [21:12] Day to celebrate the day that Masimobura, renowned chef from Modivata, saved the Parmesan industry after an earthquake. [21:20] We're going to be raffling off gourmet items donated by Sunset Foods. And all of that money will go to Food for Soul [21:28] um which is Masimo's organization that feeds hungry people using um surplus food from restaurants. We are now [21:36] working on a pen pal project and a robotics exchange and a music exchange with Yurukan. In fact, tomorrow morning [21:45] I'm meeting with the education director at Bethl um and Jamie Pestine to talk about launching this pen pal program. [21:53] So, there's more, but I won't go on. We um definitely contribute to the vibrancy of Highland Park locally, at the state level, nationally, and internationally. [22:05] We provide opportunities. We build bridges and connect cultures. We promote peace and mutual understanding through people-to-people exchanges. And we are [22:14] so grateful to you, Mayor Roaring, to each of you on the board. um [22:21] your participation in what we do. We see your faces at our events. It means the [22:29] world to us and we are so grateful for that. And of course, Gita, what can I say? Thank you, Gita. So, thank you for [22:37] your continued support. Thank you so much. And and thank you, Carol and Rick. [22:43] Absolutely. [applause] and Roa and Matt and and please thank everybody at Highland Park Sister Cities [22:51] Foundation for your commitment, your creativity, and the stewardship of our relationship with our three sister [22:58] cities. There's always something happening with that group and it's always so fun and brings people together [23:06] who may not otherwise have had the opportunity to get engaged and make new friends and it's just a joy to watch all of you and your successes. I do have the [23:14] proclamation to give to you. If you wouldn't mind coming forward, I'm happy to give it to you. [23:23] Thank [laughter] you so much. [23:29] Good to see you. [laughter] So, I think Gita's gonna take a little Thank you so much for being here. [23:39] So, if you guys don't mind, please rise. We'll take another photo. Oh, yeah. [23:53] Nope, you're good. We can see over about covering you. You're not covering up anybody. [24:01] [laughter] [24:08] He's a lawyer, isn't he? [24:21] Thank you. Thanks again. Great to see you. Thank you. Thank you. [24:32] One last thing from from the mayor. So this summer, many of our neighbors have contended with disruption and noise pollution as a result of Union Pacific's [24:41] lack of vegetation management. At my request, the city filed a formal complaint with the Illinois Commerce Commission and issued notice to the [24:50] Federal Railroad Administration regarding Union Pacific's failure to adequately manage vegetation adjacent to his rail corridor. Overgrown vegetation [24:58] can obstruct visibility for train crews and contribute to increased train horn use, including within designated quiet zones. Park Avenue, Old Deerfield Road, [25:07] and Clayby Road are all classified as Chicago excused quiet zone crossings. [25:12] And under this designation, locomotive engineers are requ are generally not required to sound the horn unless there [25:19] is a safety issue such as the presence of a trespasser, a vehicle near the tracks, work crews, animals, or visibility obstructions caused by [25:27] vegetation. Despite these protections, residents have experienced significant and recurring train horn activity. The city has repeatedly urged Union Pacific [25:36] to take a more proactive approach to vegetation management and to improve response times when visibility issues are identified along the rail line. [25:43] [clears throat and cough] Through its complaint, the city is seeking prompt corrective action to address line of sight challenges for train crews, reduce [25:51] unnecessary horn use, and minimize the negative impacts on nearby residents while maintaining rail safety. And this [25:58] was literally more than a month of train horns in the middle of the night, train horns recurring throughout the day. It [26:07] was really untenable and we expect better from Union Pacific. So hopefully filing with the ICC, forging a complaint [26:16] with the Federal Railroad Administration will get their attention and thank you to Corporation Council for helping us with that paperwork. Uh that's it for [26:24] the mayor's report. I know council member liter has business from the council. Any other members have business from the council? Okay. So, we'll start [26:32] with council member liter and then council member center. Thank you. [26:35] Thank you. So, um as the liaison to hrag which is one of our advisory groups, the human relations advisory groups, three [26:43] of the advisors um drafted up and they are advisor Ian Jassinoff, uh David [26:50] Bazard and Stephanie Luger. And this week also represents um the 80th anniversary of the Nerburgg trials and [26:59] verdicts. And they felt that it was something from their group that they would really like to have read at our meeting tonight. So commemorating the [27:08] 80th anniversary of the judgments and sentences of the international military tribunal at Nunberg. I just want to say these people take their roles and as [27:17] advisors dealing with human relations very very seriously and they see the problems in today's world um with all [27:25] sorts of hatred in all sorts of different places and all sorts of anti-semitism and because of that they wanted to make sure that we remembered history because we learn from history. [27:36] So whereas 80 years ago on October 1st, 1946, the International Military Tribunal at Nerburgg, Germany, pronounced its judgments against leading [27:45] officials in Nazi Germany for war crimes and crimes against humanity. And on October 16th, 1946, 10 defendants [27:52] sentenced to death were executed, marking a historic affirmation that individuals who participate in grave crimes against humanity may be held personally accountable before the law. [28:03] And whereas the Nuremberg proceedings took place in the aftermath of the Holocaust during which the Nazis systematically persecuted and murdered [28:10] six million Jews plus millions of other people including Roma Slavs, sexual minorities, people with disabilities, [28:17] political and religious dissident and others. And whereas the Jewish community is an important part of the civic and cultural life of Highland Park and [28:25] remembrance of the Holocaust is inseparable from our responsibility to confront anti-semitism and in protect the dignity, safety, and equal [28:34] participation of everyone in Highland Park, Jew and Gentile alike. And whereas the city of Highland Park's value [28:41] statement, statements against hate, and statements supporting marginalized communities affirm our city's commitment to an inclusive and welcoming community, [28:51] the intrinsic worth of every person, and the unequivocal condemnation of hate and discrimination. [28:57] And the 80th anniversary of the Nerburgg judgments provides an opportunity to reaffirm those commitments, honor the victims and survivors of the Holocaust [29:06] and recognize our continuing responsibility to uphold human dignity, equal justice, the rule of law, and to reject anti-semitism, racism, [29:15] dehumanization, discrimination, and political violence. Now therefore, our organization presents to Mayor Nancy [29:22] Rotary, the city council in the city of Highland Park. Um, October 13th is a day which we would like to see remembered [29:30] for the 80th anniversary of the Nuremberg judgments and sentences in the city of Highland Park and call all residents to learn from the history of [29:38] Nerburgg and the Holocaust to reject anti-semitism and all forms of hatred, prejudice, discrimination and dehumanization. to stand in solidarity [29:46] with individuals and communities who are targeted because of who they are or what they believe and to uphold the dignity, [29:53] equality, safety, and humanity of every member of our community. The city of Highland Park reaffirms its commitment to the principles embodied in its value [30:02] statement and statement against hate and to the enduring proposition that hate has no home in Highland Park. Thank you very much. [30:10] Thank you. and please share our appreciation with the human relations advisory group and that group in particular for highlighting this historic day. [30:19] Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Center. [30:21] Thanks, Mayor. Um, I want to call to the public's attention a message that was sent by the city in its e- newswsletter [30:29] on October 9th. And in case you missed it or not subscribed to it, I'll I'll read it out loud. It says, "Political signs placed on private property are the [30:37] property of the homeowner. Individuals should not enter private property remove to remove, alter, damage, or dispose of [30:44] political signs, regardless of their personal views or opinions. Unauthorized entry onto private property may result in legal action, and removing or [30:53] damaging political signs may lead to additional penalties related to property damage or theft. Our community is strengthened by respectful civic [31:01] engagement and the free exchange of ideas. While residents may hold different political beliefs, everyone has the right to express their opinions [31:09] and support the candidates or issues of their choice within the bounds of the law. [31:15] I appreciate city manager Newkerk and the city staff being timely with this communication, but it is highly disappointing to me that this is needed [31:22] to be communicated to our community at all. If you ever find yourself thinking about going onto somebody's property to remove something you disagree with, [31:30] please stop and check your moral compass. The sign belongs to your neighbor, to your fellow community member, and so does the opinion on it. [31:37] There's no place for this anywhere, let alone in Highland Park. Exercise your democratic right to vote? Absolutely. [31:45] Disrespect people's opinions on their property because they believe in something different from you. Absolutely not. As a leader of this community and [31:53] as we continue through election season for both the upcoming November 3rd election and the April 6th, 2027 consolidated election, I beg of everyone [32:02] to look in the mirror and do better than this. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? Nope. [32:08] [clears throat and cough] [32:09] This is from city staff. [32:11] Yes. Thank you, mayor. Um just two reports on behalf of city staff. Um just want to um identify we have seven items on the omnibus agenda. All are [32:19] recommended for approval and have associated staff reports. Um I just want to recognize um item number four pertains to water rates for fiscal year [32:28] 27. We did talk about water rates at the start of our budget process which begins in the spring. So April May we have a workshop with the city council. We talk [32:37] about proposed rates um for the upcoming fiscal year. And then uh this information has also been shared regularly throughout the budget process. [32:45] The water rates are part of a um our water enterprise fund which most simply means that the revenue that we get from [32:53] sale of water is used to offset our expenses for day-to-day operations as well as infrastructure investment relating to water. Um we also sell water [33:03] at a different price structure to uh number of neighboring communities that we have that um buy water from us and so [33:11] information is reflected in the staff report and is recommended for approval. [33:15] The other important element I will add is we do work diligently, certainly set by the policy of the city council and managed by our staff to keep um not only [33:24] our water rates but all of our rates and fees as low as possible. And so as it pertains to water rates, we continue to be one of the lowest um in the entire [33:33] region in terms of service to the public. Um water rates to the public, not service, [laughter] water rates to [33:39] the public, high service, low rates, right? [clears throat] Um and then uh uh everything else is recommended for [33:47] approval. And then the second item is um under the staff report we do have budget reports um reflecting highlights of each [33:56] department budget. We have six departments. And so within each memorandum from the respective directors um you will find highlights of the [34:04] department budgets. Uh information about major variances from um fiscal year 26 to 27. And then based on feedback from [34:13] the council, we include information in there such as membership and training information and other key highlights. Um so this continues um one step of many as [34:23] part of our budget development process which again began in the spring and will conclude at the end of the year. In [34:29] terms of our next formal um step, we will be posting the proposed budget on the city's website on November 2nd and [34:37] then we'll have a public hearing on November 9th and then recommend approval of the budget uh November 23rd. Happy to entertain any questions. [34:45] Yes, I actually had a question. [34:47] [clears throat and cough] If you go into um the community development budget um pages three and and four, I just had [34:57] a quick question. Uh I don't know uh director Fontaine if this is you or if this is our finance director to answer [35:05] the question but we talk about in the two tiff districts that the fund balance target is 0% and in the case of Ravenia [35:12] it's 820% in reality and in the Briergate TIFF budget it's 941% and I see the part at the bottom that says the [35:20] target is zero but the fund balance can accumulate but obviously hundreds of percentages is a lot of money and so is [35:28] Is there a place where if we wanted to we could see where where those funds like the timelines for anticipating [35:36] paying those funds down or where would somebody reading this get that further detail to better understand what the plans are for these tiff districts? [35:46] Um so the t theidia tiff district uh ends in 2028 but expenditures can continue into 29. So that's coming to an [35:54] end very quickly. And so we've accumulated funds throughout the time of this tiff prior to spending. Um we did not bond on this tiff. Um and so these [36:04] funds are being accumulated to do the infrastructure work and the above ground streetscape work that's been planned. [36:11] So that's the the four the entire 4 million and change. Yes. Mayor. [36:16] Yeah. So if anyone from the public has a question, they're certainly welcome to contact us. So, at the spring workshop that we had with the city council, we're [36:23] following a real thoughtful and strategic plan of how all the tiff funds are being used from inception of the tiff until the conclusion of the tiff. [36:32] We have one year after the tiff expiration to use all those funds otherwise they're returned back to um to the property owners. Our intention is to [36:42] use them all. And so um remaining work includes infrastructure investment um additional parking. We're looking at bumpouts for the businesses. So, we've [36:50] started preliminary work um to formulate our recommendation that we presented to the city council in the spring and then [36:59] this year we are doing planning, engineering, continued plug public engagement and then eventually we'll bring forward the plan for formal consideration. [37:07] And are those um posted on the city website somewhere? I guess my question is just that it tiffs come up from time [37:14] to time. Absolutely. If somebody wants to better understand, especially when we're talking about four million for one business district, where would they be [37:22] able to find that information or is that something that they need to request from the city? [37:26] Um, so both. Um, in terms of the work that's being planned for 2728, that is reflected in the budget because it's in [37:35] the 27 budget. But if people want to look back at the history of how we've spent funds or um you know in terms of [37:42] like SSA funds in the future, it's probably just more efficient to call contact us. We have a wealth of information on our website, but we can [37:50] provide them the most direct information. [37:51] And so too with Briergate and the 4.7 million, correct? [37:55] Is that all when is that deadline? to you about is that in the 30s or is that also I believe that started 2027 that 2017 [38:04] that um when it expired Christie um it definitely is in the 30s okay 33 that's what I thought I wanted to say 31 [38:13] okay and then we are looking at um immediate funds of [38:20] that fund balance to help with the pedestrian bridge um Oh fantastic Okay, that's great. Out of the Brier Gate. [38:28] Terrific. Okay, thanks so much. I just was looking for opportunity to clarify. [38:33] Great. Thank you. Uh, any other questions on the report from city staff? [38:38] Nope. Okay. Um, thanks city manager Newkerk. Um, management analyst Cherry, would you please introduce the next item on our agenda, business from the public? [38:47] Thank you, Mayor. The next item on the agenda is business from the public. This is an opportunity for members of the public to address the city council on a topic that is within the council's [38:55] purview and jurisdiction but is not listed in another location on the agenda. If you would like to speak about a matter that is listed on the agenda, [39:03] we ask that you wait until that agenda item is called and we will give you an opportunity to speak then. If your matter is on the omnibus consent agenda, [39:10] please let us know if you would like us to remove that matter from the consolidated list so that you can speak about it. Please be aware that business from the public is not intended to be a [39:18] forum for open dialogue or engagement with members of the city council. [39:22] Rather, it is intended as an opportunity to make comments to the city council. [39:26] Please do not expect a response from anyone tonight. If appropriate, we may direct the city manager or other city staff to respond to questions or issues [39:33] raised at a later date. All comments should be directed to the city council. [39:37] All speakers will be limited to three minutes. We request that the public not applaud or make other comments after any speaker. We ask that everyone be respectful, civil, and non-repetitive. [39:48] Are there any members of the public who wish to be heard this evening on an item not on tonight's agenda? [39:53] Seeing none, we will continue on with our scheduled business. Our omnibus agenda has seven items 1 through 7 [40:01] grouped together for omnivous consideration. I'm seeking a motion to approve items 1 through 7. So moved. Second. [40:08] Any discussion on one through seven. Any comments from the public? Hearing none, will the clerk please call the vote? Council member center. I. [40:16] Council member Buckman I. Council member Ross. I. Council member Tapia. I. Council member Litter. I. Mayor Roing. [40:23] I. That six eyes non items 1 through 7 have been approved. Item 12A is consideration of a referral of a variation request to the zoning board of appeals for 1120 Croftton Avenue North. [40:36] Director Fontaine. [40:39] Yes, Mayor. [clears throat] Madame Mayor, thank you. Um, [40:51] this item is a consideration of a referral of a variation request to the zoning board of appeals related to 1120 [40:58] Croftton Avenue, otherwise known as Babo Link Golf Course. Um [clears throat] [41:05] staff recommends referral to the zoning board of appeals to conduct a public hearing to either take final action on this matter or provide a recommendation [41:13] for city council's final action on this item. [41:17] Um, as council probably recalls, but we do very infrequently, there are there is such a thing as a copier referral in our [41:25] code and um, for that um, that vernacular that we use to refer to these type of items. Um, the council is asked [41:34] not to consider the variation request itself, but whether and how the request should be considered by the zoning board of appeals, specifically whether a [41:42] unique situation exists that warrants review under the variation standards of the zoning code and thus referral to the ZVA for a recommendation or final [41:52] action, whichever the council deems appropriate. Council can also decide not to refer a request for variance, which is essentially a denial of the request. [42:01] If referred, council um council should direct whether to for recommendation or for final action, meaning whether refer [42:09] to CBA for final action or recommendation back to this body for final action. [42:15] Okay, so just in quick summary, the applicant [clears throat] for Baba Link Golf Club [42:23] um is proposing to essentially change out an an already existing addition, make it larger and uh taller but u much [42:33] more uh design consistent with the building that's already there quite substantially. So um so the property is [42:42] split zoned R4 and R1. It's a very large golf course. Um improvements are entirely in the R4 zoning district. Um [42:50] the request specifically that's being asked to be referred is a uh a request to exceed the maximum height requirement [42:58] for the primary structure. So this is an addition on to the primary structure. [43:03] [clears throat] [43:04] The max height in the R4 district is 32 and the request is to allow a 35 foot [43:10] 7.5 in um addition on the building the existing building. And so um the actual [43:20] what we call um height above med um immediate grade is going to be 23 23t 9 [43:28] in. Um, and this will replace the addition that's currently there, uh, at [43:35] 14 ft 8.5 in. So, it'll be taller than the current addition, but um, 23t 9 in [43:42] at local grade. As you may recall, council, the the way the average grade is is calculated, it's by the points on [43:51] the entire property, the building envelope. So, this is a very large property and it varies quite a bit. And so thus you have these outcomes in these [44:00] cases where you have something that the local grade or the immediate grade right in front of the building is 23 23t 9 in [44:09] while the actual reference to the average grade per code would make it be 35t 7.5 in. [44:18] Um thus the request so the average grade as defined by code for the property as 642. The addition is on the high side of [44:26] the property and uh that that part of the property is 654 feet five inches. [44:34] So just as a side note, the addition will be compliant with setback requirements. This is important because there are neighbors nearby. [44:42] So let's just give a little perspective here. Um although the council is not considering the specifics of this variance, it's important that you know [44:49] what's being requested and where. Um and so the star in the upper right hand corner of the yellow box there is the location. [44:59] Um zooming in on that location you can see the abuing homes and uh that portion of the building will be changed out to the new addition proposed. [45:10] Um here as I referenced earlier we can see on the upper right hand corner where the uh work will be done as the high [45:18] point of the property as you can see by these uh grade measurements. [45:24] So the site varies of up to 20 feet across the site you know depending on on where you are. Okay. So zooming in at [45:31] the the location in question. So, this yellow area that you see um in in this portion of the picture, that's roughly, [45:39] you know, where the addition will wind up being. It's going to be pulled back a bit and it's going to locate there. And here you can see um this portion of a a [45:49] clip of the site plan. You can see that it will be set back 36 feet, 37 feet, and about 34 feet from the north [45:56] property line. Now, the north property line is roughly this lower red line here. um just for illustrative purposes, [46:04] it's about 60 feet from that property line to the actual homes. So you have two things. You have about said, you [46:11] know, 34 to 37 feet from the property line and about another 60 ft to those homes. Okay. So that gives you a sense [46:18] of where this will be relative to development around it. [46:23] staff recommend a referral to the zoning board of appeals to conduct a public hearing to either take final action on this matter or provide recommendation for council's final action on this item. [46:35] Do seek that direction if this is if council decides to refer this to the zoning board. Madame Mayor and council, great. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for the [46:42] excellent writeup. Um I took a drive by, took a peek, saw what was going on. I think uh in my estimation we should [46:51] refer to the ZBA for final direction. Um but curious to know what other people think. I see heads. [46:57] Sure. This slide's just here for your reference on copy. [47:01] Even though I know we're not looking at this substantively, I did Could we go back to the picture? I just want to have one question. Sure. [47:08] Because what I really like is the fact that there are no setbacks that are uh in question here and that's really important. But the one part of the building that looks like it's close Oh, the are the red lines. That's the 60 ft. [47:19] So there's no house essentially [clears throat] of those homes. Okay. And but there's no home. Do you see the yellow dotted line? That's where the new additions. [47:28] This is where the additions and it's going to match the rest of the building, right? And so I understand that, but I guess at that one corner. I'm just [47:35] wondering how far I know there's no setback violation or need for variance, but what is the distance there? [47:42] 34T roughly or 33t 10. And that's why I wanted cuz like at that picture it looks like it's 9 ft and I thought oh my god [47:50] no that that's that's roughly 34 ft and this is uh 37 ft roughly just under. Terrific. Thank you. [47:58] So are people okay with referring Okay. We need a a motion to that effect. [48:02] A motion move. [48:06] We needed clarity that you would like to refer this to the zoning board of appeals for final determination. [48:11] Yeah. what she said. [clears throat] Motion motion to refer this matter to the zoning board of appeals for final determination. [48:19] Second. Thank you. Any further discussion? [48:22] Hearing none, [snorts] will the clerk call the vote, please? Council member center. Hi. Council member Buckman. I. Council member Ross. I. Council member Tapia. Hi. [48:30] Council member Little. I. Mayor Roing. [48:32] I. Six eyes, no nays. And this item will be referred back to the zoning board of appeals for final determination. Thank you. [48:39] Good job. With that, I am seeking a motion to adjourn the city council meeting. So moved. Second. All in favor say I. [48:46] I. Thank you. And just to note, we are resuming the um Hulk. [50:31] Actually, actually [50:46] for 30 Oh, okay. [53:09] Okay. All right. Will the clerk please call the role for committee of the whole? Here we go again. Council member center. [53:16] Uh, present. [53:17] Council member Breman here. [53:19] Council member Ross here. [53:20] Council member Tavia present. [53:22] Council member Lart here. Council member Bloomberg. [53:25] Mayor Ro here. Okay. And we're back. Let's talk reducing. So, this is a continuation of the last committee, the whole meeting. [53:34] Um, so Austin Knight and Corey Conn are going to walk through the presentation. [53:38] I know you heard the presentation at the last meeting, but just want to make sure that um that the council has a full [53:46] information as it as it pertains to the consideration that's before us, the research that's been done thus far, as well as um property owner and sustainability advisory group feedback. [53:57] So we'll go through the presentation and look forward to your feedback. Great. [54:01] Hi everybody. Alsability manager. So I'll just get right into it. Kind of an overview of the proposed um program [54:10] structure. So inclusion 3,000 square ft that's matching Northbrook. So keeping in mind with them including all the [54:17] relevant exemptions we talked about before the 15 cents per bag in FY2027 escalating 5 cents per year until it [54:25] hits the 30 cent threshold. And then the single-use uh plastic ban would go into effect at that time. The revenue share [54:32] that's being proposed is 6040 in paper the city. So that would then be 50/50 if they eliminated single use plastic bags [54:40] before the 2030 financial year. And then there's the usual requirement that signage is clearly posted. So that's [54:48] kind of normal and what we see in all these bad bills. [54:54] So then policy consideration talking about the fee structure. So typically in the research that I've done um it ranges [55:01] between 10 15 cents that's typically what we see. Um Oak Park is the one that just updated their policy to have a [55:09] 5-cent annual increase because during the pandemic they saw the bag kind of go back to a higher rate and it stayed [55:16] there. And so they've done their research. I've looked at the research that they've done in white papers and typically um that increase is meant to [55:25] get the levels back down to what they were when the bag when a bag fee is introduced. [55:32] Um and then they're banning them all in 2030. So that's kind of what they're doing is annual increase ban in 2030 and then keeping the paper bags. It's a single-use option. [55:42] Um, so ours would be what we're recommending is 15 cents per bag beginning in July 1st, 2027. That's [55:49] paper and plastic. Annual increase of 5 cents. January 1st, uh, kind of 2028 would be the first [55:57] increase and then until 2030 and be a ban on single use plastics in 2030, January 1st, and then it would max out. [56:05] The fee would max out as I said at 30 cents and then revenues generated would go to the sustainability fund. So is recommended to sustainably fund assist [56:14] in replenishing this fund which assists in covering cost differentials and stable purchasing funds, educational programming utilize for sustainably related [56:22] incentives such as future ones like a gas power leaf blower if that ban is instituted. So things like that would be [56:30] um used with sustainability fund. And I'll pass it off to John. [56:38] So across the board, municipalities return anywhere from zero to 90% of the bag fee revenue from the participating [56:46] merchants. Staff is recommending a balanced approach. First, for retailers who use both singleuse paper bags and [56:55] plastic bags, staff is recommending a 60/40 split where 60% of the revenue going to the city and 40% of the revenue [57:03] going to the merchant. Second, for retailers who provide only paper bags, so no plastic bags, we suggest an even [57:12] 50/50 split. And finally, we recommend capping the revenue so that retailers earn a maximum of 10 cents per bag. So [57:20] theoretically, if there was a 5-cent increment and it went all the way up to 30 cents, the cap that they would receive would be 10 cents if there was a 38 cent uh fee. [57:33] In terms of participating businesses, you may ask who's affected. So, we went over this briefly, but the recommended [57:40] 3,000 foot threshold as well as um feedback we received both from committee the whole but also SAG and BAG regarding [57:49] exemptions. Staff identified 34 participating retailers in Highland Park. As a part of the outreach, city [57:56] surveyed both residents and businesses, receiving a total of 373 responses. On the business side, specifically, four of [58:04] the 34 potentially affected operators responded. All opposed the program. [58:09] Among these businesses, 75% strongly opposed the policy, 25% somewhat opposed [58:16] the policy. And we did survey these business businesses to see if they use a mix of plastic, paper, and reusable [58:24] bags. All the respondents indicated that they use a mix of all uh three of those types. Two businesses that responded [58:33] were over 10,000 square ft while the other two businesses were between 3 and 5,000 ft. These businesses cited the [58:40] following as reasons uh for their opposition. Too many new fees for consumers in recent years. [58:47] objections to charging for paper bags as well as plastic bags. Uh the fact that their customers were just happy not [58:55] having a bag fee in place currently and the added workload for already busy employees. While the survey results are [59:02] mixed and it is a limited sample size uh with just a small number of responses, it's worth noting that in other municipalities with similar programs, [59:10] businesses have reported minimal disruption for consumers once the program is implemented. Finally, it's important to recognize several Highland [59:19] Park retailers already using reusable bags, whether it's small boutiques or some of the larger brands. Uh for [59:26] example, chains like Target, Jewel, and Sunset participate in similar programs in other communities and have seen positive results. [59:40] Okay. So, some of the next steps we can just go over real quick in terms of if this were to um move forward is [59:48] returning to council for final consideration of policy adoption and then it would be future discussion with local retailers [59:55] affected by the policy. So, a little bit more outreach and then it would be a public and business education outreach campaign. So that's typically what we [1:00:03] see whenever any of these types of laws are implemented is a lot of outreach and education before then um to make sure [1:00:10] everybody isn't overwhelmed by this new process. [1:00:17] And so essentially what we are requesting is feedback on whether we want to go [1:00:26] Yeah, here we go. Yeah, that's right. Uh feedback on whether uh we want to go forward with a reusable bag policy and [1:00:33] then if so associated per bag fees and then the associated revenue share with businesses that are part of the program. [1:00:40] So that's kind of what we're seeking feedback on. Um yeah, that's uh it for this. Um I have a [1:00:48] quick question. Do we have um data and maybe it was in the report from last time in terms of the number of bags [1:00:58] reduced versus revenues generated because it seemed like money was definitely generated but the intention [1:01:05] behind the policy obviously is to reduce use of the bags. Do we have the data on how many bags were reduced in Northbrook [1:01:14] in Oak Park and who put these policies in place? We do have North Park's only been for about 2 years, but they did see [1:01:22] from I think it was about 3.1 million to about 2.9 million if I recall correctly. [1:01:29] Like a 7% decrease in Yeah, theirs was that was just new with theirs and their theirs is still at the 10-cent mark. Um [1:01:38] although I'd be inclined to think that right when it begins is when you would see the biggest drop. Yes. [1:01:44] because after that people become a little inure to the 10 cents per bag or whatever the case may be. So, okay. So, so thank you for that. And [1:01:52] then um I know we love to do things on a regional basis in terms of not driving [1:01:59] our shoppers next door to another town that's not doing these types of different uh policies. But it looked to [1:02:08] me like when the state was looking at doing something like this, it's not passed in the four sessions that they've tried or the four different types. [1:02:16] It's been tried a few times. [1:02:18] Fair. Okay. Okay. Just wanted to kind of establish that context. Thanks, Council Member Lor then Center, then Ross, then Brookman. [1:02:25] Okay. So, a couple things. First of all, um, thank you very much you guys. It really looks like you really researched it. So, right. [1:02:32] Have follow us whatever. Thanks because I think that was really great. Um, I also am really pleased because even though you say it's a small sampling, [1:02:41] when we tend to do surveys, we don't get 373 responses. And I'm really happy that [1:02:48] 373 people weighed in on it. That being said, we do set the policy. So, I I can understand why we might go in a [1:02:57] different direction. But I do think you have to be careful when people say to you, "We don't want this by not a slim [1:03:05] margin, but a bigger margin." And then we go and say, "But we're going to give it to you anyhow." So, because of that, [1:03:12] while I really appreciate your suggestions, um the 3,000 square ft makes perfect sense. I get it. I think that's great. [1:03:20] But when people are telling you they don't want this, I really don't like the idea of doing the 15 cents per bag. I would suggest we start with the 10 cents [1:03:29] per bag. Number one, I can understand the escalating by 5 cents annually, but if we start this in midyear 27, that [1:03:37] means that in 28, within 6 months, we're raising it another 5 cents. So, think about that. If we go with the 15 and the [1:03:45] five, we're at 20 cents within a year and a half. And I really don't think that's acceptable. So, at best, I would [1:03:52] say let's do the 10 cents, frankly. Um, so that's part of it. I do not like the idea of the 6040. I understand the tier [1:04:01] difference between 6040 and 50/50 depending on the two bags versus the one bag. We are again, we're incentivizing. [1:04:09] I get it. But frankly, these people just told you unanimously they don't want it. And I don't care if it's for businesses. [1:04:15] They took the time to say why they don't want it in addition to our people saying it. Again, it doesn't mean we shouldn't educate the public and we shouldn't move [1:04:22] forward because it's best practices. And I think we'd all like to see us get to no bags period. Um, there was the [1:04:30] question which I asked earlier last time about the paper bags because I was like, well, let's just ban the plastic and [1:04:36] keep paper. I understand the costs of producing the paper bags and that they're so much higher with water usage [1:04:43] and everything else. So, I understand there's a reason for banning both and moving eventually to like only reason [1:04:51] that I get it, but I think that this is too aggressive in light of those things. [1:04:56] And because of that, I would propose number one only the 10 cents. Definitely a 50/50 split. I don't think we should [1:05:03] max the revenue off the retailers. If we're going to continue to take in money, they should get part of that money, too, because they have the labor costs of implementing even though it's [1:05:12] going to become systematic. And frankly, I really think what we should do is have the education through 2027 and begin [1:05:20] this in January 1st of 28 rather than starting it right off the bat because we asked them a question and they said no. [1:05:29] And so maybe best practices would argue the other way. So I would say let's educate and let's move into that program because it is the right thing to do, but I wouldn't do it right now. [1:05:41] That's just one voice. Yeah. But thank you very much for you bet calling me John. [1:05:47] Yeah. um trying to digest everything because there are some there's some alarming [1:05:55] feedback I would say obviously from the surveys both businesses and uh residents and then [1:06:02] and one other point I'm sorry this is part of that no other community wanted to partner regionally in terms of doing [1:06:09] that and that says to me when you mentioned mayor correctly we don't want to push people away from our community to go shock somewhere else right And I [1:06:18] don't know if they'll go to Deerfield, right? And and you know, price of gas, maybe they're not going to drive, but who knows, right? Do you think that point was part of that? [1:06:30] Also, the small sample size, but not a huge benefit we're seeing from Northbrook. [1:06:38] Like that's also a little bit concerning that we're burdening businesses and residents with this cost and really not [1:06:46] getting a lot of benefit. So is it ultimately the right solution for sustainability? [1:06:52] Um you know I Cy I think one of the businesses you mentioned sort of the nuance between paper and [1:07:01] plastic to your point as well. I thought that was interesting and and just like is it ultimately is our objective to get rid of bags altogether [1:07:09] or is it to get rid of or reduce, you know, uh non-recyclable plastics? [1:07:16] And if if that's the case, maybe it's there's a happy medium here that we have where we're making an effort to get rid of nonrecyclable plastics, but still you [1:07:25] allowing paperback, not charging for them. maybe allowing some more time to get some more data from other neighboring communities and get in some more sort of scale around this. But [1:07:33] there's some things that are a little bit concerning for me just based on what we're here my initial meeting. Thank you. Yeah. [1:07:39] Um Yi [1:07:42] [laughter] [1:07:43] uh I thought there was one person before me. Um I I uh you know plastic bags are a huge [1:07:51] problem. They're imp very hard I think uh you know to recycle. Um and as as uh [1:08:01] evidence of that I I brought my little show and tell uh orange hefty bag. Uh you know these right? Uh you you buy [1:08:08] them um you can buy them at Sunset Foods which I do. And I just learned uh this [1:08:15] weekend that Hefty is um um eliminating that program. uh it's too expensive uh [1:08:22] for them to do and one would you know extra get venture to guess that it's just really hard to recycle the plastic [1:08:31] bags and and um I that actually uh made me very very worried. I was extremely [1:08:39] upset to hear they were doing away with this program because I uh religiously used used those orange bags. Um so it's [1:08:46] a huge problem. I at the same time um I [1:08:52] uh I very much favor um splitting the um uh you know re the revenue share 50/50. [1:09:04] Um I I I just I I can't help thinking about the the challenges that you know businesses are going to have [1:09:13] implementing this. And to me that seems like the fair thing to do. Um I I am I [1:09:21] I'm not sure about the 15 cents versus 10 cents and I would like to hear our discussion around you know it it does uh [1:09:31] make sense to educate and then uh implement. Uh so I'd like to hear um I [1:09:38] always learned something at the table from the discussion you know what everybody feels about that uh or what the entire table feels about uh you know [1:09:47] first educating and then and then implementing uh I I know this is a problem that absolutely has to be addressed um we're [1:09:56] swimming in plastic bags um and at the same time you know concerned for you know businesses I I know we all are [1:10:05] concerned at the for businesses that have to deal with the implementation of this and reporting to the city and whatnot. Um and the feedback that we we [1:10:14] got uh you know there's got to be a happy medium of of how we do this. Right. [1:10:21] So just for clarification then if it moved forward would you support the January 2028 to have more time for [1:10:28] education or or are you comfortable with the 20 m 27th? So it July 27th it would be midyear is it? [1:10:35] It would be July 1st is what we had suggested but it certainly could be the whole year. Yeah. [1:10:40] Um you know uh I'm still deciding on that. Yeah. [1:10:50] Thank you. [1:10:52] Thank you. Uh when we first discussed this back in April, I think I was the only one of the only people that was not in favor of the um back tax and I still, [1:11:00] you know, feel that way in the sense that looking at only four businesses were responded and they were not in favor. Um the fact that it's been [1:11:09] discussed already, but we would be one of the only suburbs in the area that's doing this. Um Northbrook isn't seeing [1:11:15] much of a difference, it seems. Um and so I'm still not in favor of this. I mean, I think the idea of education and, [1:11:23] you know, take some time so people know that this could be something down the road um makes sense, but I'm still I I [1:11:30] do worry that this is a lot on these our businesses and that will drive people away to shop and surrounding suburbs right now. So, I as important as this is [1:11:39] is, I just don't think um we should do it right now. Thanks. Thanks. Thank you. [1:11:45] Yeah, I think that philosophically and policy wise um I'm supportive of this. [1:11:50] have some nuances here. Um, particularly because we did declare it's one of our pillars. [1:11:58] So, for us to say it's one of our pillars, but we're not going to do anything about it. [1:12:04] I mean, like nothing doesn't make sense. [1:12:09] Uh, and obviously change is difficult and I think we need to be sensitive. I like council member Lewward's suggestion [1:12:16] that we actually go lower at the 10 cent, not be so aggressive on the in increase and you can play with the [1:12:23] timing. Um, and but I think from a change management perspective, if you want to do education, council member [1:12:32] Buckman, I think you have to get their attention. [1:12:35] You know, there has to be something, right? What's this 10? I mean it's not too much of a cost but it's one that people will notice and then we can we [1:12:43] can couple we're doing this tax we're starting here we do want into in banning but here's why because without any [1:12:53] anything then why would anybody pay attention to being educated and things are just fine right now as opposed to hm [1:13:00] are you going to educate me about how I can wean myself from these bags what are the alternatives I'm going to pay attention cuz I don't want to pay attention sense. So, I think the [1:13:08] economic imperative is there. Um, you know, while North hasn't seen much impact, you know, other cities have um but in the end, what's the impact? [1:13:22] It's people not using bags, which we would move toward and a ban because that's what's impacting our planet is [1:13:29] the bags. You know, whether people are using them or not, well, as long as they can use them, they will use them. So, I don't think we're going to solve the [1:13:36] problem. Um, so that's my train of thought there. Um, the other is I I have a question and then a comment. [1:13:43] Do we have a sense of how much revenue could be produced just with your numbers? No, don't bring it down to 10 cents, but just I don't want to redo the [1:13:50] numbers right here, but in general, whatever amounts you're talking, so it's been roughly we've seen with North Brook, they have 150,000. So total per year. [1:13:59] Yes. Okay. [1:14:00] So that's roughly we can expect within give or take that range. Um, that's roughly what we can expect. [1:14:08] Is that the city's revenue portion? Yes. I just want to make sure it wasn't. [1:14:12] No, the total collected. How much is generated total? [1:14:16] I'd have to go with the Is it double? 300,000. [1:14:22] So, how much is a I mean just how many how much is a household thing just roughly? [1:14:28] What what's that's that's what's what's the impact on a yearly basis to a family for? Is there anything like that? Just [1:14:35] well roughly if you were to do like 10 bags a week, you can figure out that way. [1:14:39] Okay, let's just I mean just play play it out. [1:14:42] If you like five bags, so that'd be roughly like 50 cents. So you're looking at [1:14:49] four bucks a month a week. Yeah. So roughly four bucks. So roughly like 4050 $45. But add on to that your recycling [1:14:57] cost. Add on to that your composting cost. all these families, their little 35 and $40 five add-ons. I don't think [1:15:05] it's about the money. I think it's about figuring out a way. [1:15:08] No, but from a change management perspective to know what the impact is. [1:15:12] That's that's helpful. I mean, I know that you did a back envelope here, but you know, okay, it's it's four bucks a a month, right? [1:15:20] Yeah. [1:15:20] Yeah. Okay. So, we're not talking 10 bucks a month. We're talking four. It's still an impact, but we're kind of measuring kind of what we're asking [1:15:29] people to do, right? All right. So, so that puts me in the 10 cents mark, which should bring down the dollar amount [1:15:36] impact a little bit, right? And I wonder and if we can stay on 10 until we do a full ban. [1:15:44] So, so not not go keep going up and say it's 10, it's 10, it's 10 in 2030 everybody, it's a ban. So, it's it's a declaration. [1:15:54] So rather than trying to wean them off by segments, we wean off wherever we can and then we give them advanced warning. [1:16:02] It's going to be a ban. Let us educate you. Here are the alternatives. [1:16:06] I like that's Park has that ban, right? 2030. [1:16:08] Yeah. So park is one that went with the four years to have a complete ban on bags. [1:16:13] Yeah. but give a little bit of a pinch but not scratch it up because in the end if people get their own bags they won't be hit by the tax [1:16:22] the financial food for thought just for whatever purpose. [1:16:28] So like I said 21 years ago we were talking about this and nobody's unaware [1:16:34] of the impact of plastic bags. So, education before legislation always, but [1:16:41] at what point are we just kind of talking to ourselves because we all know, everybody knows, right, that plastic bags are bad for the [1:16:49] environment. Everybody knows when they go to the meat market, they're still going to get a plastic bag. When they go for takeout, they're still going to get a plastic bag. I'm with you all day [1:16:58] because you know we've seen the horrible videos of plastic in the ocean and all that. But by the same token at the very [1:17:06] same time we're talking about two things that are going to be disincentives. One is we don't want people to leave town to shop elsewhere. [1:17:14] And two, we are cognizant of the increasing cost to people of buying food of living in this economy right now. And [1:17:22] it may sound like not much, but if people are are scaling back, we already have, you know, this is a regressive [1:17:29] impact because people who go shopping presumably who need smaller bags cuz they're walking. Whatever the case may be, now you're having a detrimental [1:17:37] impact on the very people that you're trying to help in other ways. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around our decision-m with this for the following [1:17:45] reason. Nobody in the region other than Northbrook wants to do it. none of our businesses and and granted it's ironic [1:17:53] to me because Sunset came in here again whenever we talked about this extensively a few years ago, you know, how how detrimental this would be to their business, yet they're happily [1:18:01] doing it in Northbrook. So, I don't know where I land on this. I know that it's a problem. I know that people are already educated. I don't like the economic [1:18:10] effect on our businesses and I don't see the economic impact that's going to [1:18:17] change behavior sufficiently if only 7% drop has occurred in the first two years of this program in Northbrook. So I [1:18:25] don't know that's just observation and and that's one more point. Thank you. And it's a different kind of point, [1:18:32] but the splitting of the money because of the regressive impact. Why would we [1:18:39] not split give the money for those who have food insecurity? [1:18:43] Give it to Rain Township to the Yeah. Not to us. I'm I'm sorry. [1:18:46] Sustainability fund, but [laughter] but we're already doing our sustainability effort by by doing this B. So, we're doing something. [1:18:53] That's right. But why reap more benefit from it when if we the regressive thing I mean it it'll be indirect because it's [1:19:01] you know the go to the shop but still it's a way to recognize that yeah you know for those that are most affected by [1:19:09] is very much challenged right now. The other part of it though is then you still have plenty of people who are not going to the food pantry who are still [1:19:17] feeling this economic pain and are not necessarily able to change their behavior because they I mean you see people walking home from the grocery [1:19:25] store with their multiple bags. So I don't know I I don't know that we we love to be the progressive tip of the [1:19:33] spear but sometimes I feel like this is again going back to the cost benefit analysis I'm not sure where we net out with that. Mayor, I have a question. You [1:19:41] know, when you kept saying education, and frankly, I I was the one who said, "Let's wait." Um, but I don't think it's [1:19:48] education about knowing they're bad. I think everybody knows they're bad. It's more that when I go to Colorado, I'm the [1:19:56] only fool that walks in the store and doesn't have my bags with me cuz it's not my habit. [1:20:03] So, it's not educating about that. It's about habit patterns so that when you leave your house, you've got the four my my daughter keeps in her trunk [1:20:11] and and my daughter-in-law in California, they keep in their trunks all the reusable bags. [1:20:16] And so that's the education. But what I kind of like about waiting a year is [1:20:23] let's educate the public and see and survey them maybe in nine months and see if our results are maybe a little more [1:20:31] positive knowing that this is about to be put into place and I think we should re-evaluate how we want to do it with [1:20:39] regard to the public but in addition to that I think we'll get maybe better feedback on it if we do it but I do love the idea of not increasing ing it above [1:20:48] the 10 and then using the share at some point should we move forward with this um by giving it to those who are who [1:20:55] need the food. So I I mean I think that's really the city giving something and there is the sustainability [1:21:02] education part of it but I don't think the education is about plastic or paper bags. [1:21:09] It's about we got changing our habits and in the practice getting rid of the plastic. really. [1:21:15] Um yeah, then that's why this conversation is, you know, it's helpful to have this back and forth. Um I mean [1:21:23] it it it is one of the worst, you know, forms of pollution because we can't get [1:21:30] rid of these things. Um I um I you know thinking about the question of how long [1:21:39] to wait and and listening to everybody at the table I feel it it it feels like s you know July [1:21:48] the I agree with you that that the people already know they're dead. Um, but I it kind of be the education of [1:21:56] like a heads up to the community that th this is happening and if you aren't staying in the loop, wait, what do you mean? Highland Park now has a, you know, [1:22:05] ban on this. I mean, I'd like I'd like probably a full year to to let people know about this. And the other question [1:22:13] is, um, it we're talking about at this table about fear of people going to other communities. Can't we work with [1:22:22] other communities to They don't want to do it. [1:22:24] They don't want to do no even discussed this. No, they said no. [1:22:27] Really quick on that. So, one of the reasons why Gerfield said no was the orange bag program. So, with that changing the orange bag did influence [1:22:35] some communities. So, with that changing there might be, but I just want to point out that the reason why Dor Deerfield [1:22:45] uh said to me they don't want to do it is because of the orange bag program. [1:22:48] So, they they had the orange bag program. [1:22:50] rehab it and that's I mean it was it was shocking to me to hear that that it's going away. Um I just didn't feel like that would be [1:23:00] worth more effort is trying to get everybody to go along with this. Yeah. Andreas. [1:23:07] Yeah. A couple other things. Uh I have a question. Aren't businesses going to save money by not having to spend money [1:23:14] on a lot of bags, paper and p and plastic? [1:23:18] Yeah, they would. there would be some savings there. And with the 5050 split, they'd also cover some of the cost. So I look at the I mean so I'm [1:23:25] looking at the economics, right? I don't I take out that line item off my expense sheet, which must be a lot, I have to imagine. Plus, I'm getting 50% back from [1:23:35] this, you know, I'm getting 5 cents back. I'm making money off these bags that I don't have to even spend money on. [1:23:42] I mean, so I don't know. So I think uh there's something there. Second thing is Highland Park already has a history of [1:23:50] adequately preparing our citizens for sustainability. We did it with recycling many years ago and there was resistance. Mhm. [clears throat] Composting. [1:23:58] We did it with composting and like what and but we spent time educating before, during, and after, right? [1:24:05] And and we got the schools involved the whole bit. So why is this any different? Cuz you're asking them to pay money. [1:24:12] Well, we do composting. We ask them to pay money. $3 a month. Well, businesses and people. Yeah. [1:24:20] So, anyway, but it's not like we're new at this. [1:24:24] No. And that's fine. I'm just raising my own concerns. [1:24:28] No, I hear No, I understand those concerns. Go ahead. [1:24:32] And I'm just going to go back to um again my concern. My concerns is also like again like I stated already people [1:24:39] going to other communities and I like I go to nor I go to the Marianos in Northbrook and I see people just buying the the bags. They're not changing their [1:24:47] habits. It doesn't seem right now and that's to me I don't see that as you know then I hear people then I hear people say oh I'm not going to go to [1:24:56] Marianos in Northbrook. I'm going to go to Marianos in Banickburn because I don't have to pay for the bag the bags. So I think I just want to [1:25:03] chase some more. Yeah, John, have we seen in Oak Park? Maybe it's too [1:25:08] soon. Like any metrics around [1:25:14] changes in shopping and traffic to the community following the full map? If so, [1:25:23] if not, like maybe that'd be interesting to explore. Like I think Council Tavia, your comments make a lot of sense. I [1:25:32] think the mayor's concerns or I fully agree with you on all of your concerns and customer like I think we all want to [1:25:40] get there but there's a trepidation around sort of how and when and it feels high risk to just do it without other [1:25:48] communities being engaged and this be more of a concerted regional effort given that we potentially have more to [1:25:55] lose by being a first mover here and early Is it you guys who've reached [1:26:03] out to the other communities or did you reach out to the other communities who like I was one that reached out to the other communities so I can I can certainly [1:26:10] reach back out now that the orange drag has kind of changed and always do a little bit of extra outreach on that right [1:26:17] and see if they're interested now um cuz we also again we're members of the Northwest Municipal Conference and that's all of our neighbors and [clears throat] so we could potentially [1:26:25] there's board meeting tomorrow night we could potentially bring it up and say you know who's considering this where have you landed is it still a fix kind [1:26:33] of a thing I have another thought what if we so the main objective if we're looking at this in terms of really sustainability the [1:26:41] worst offender is plastic bag right I mean I know there's cost to getting paper but the plastic bags are the [1:26:48] really the horrible things right what if we did a ban on plastic bags didn't charge a fee and kept paper bags cuz all [1:26:57] the exceptions that we have that you know There's so many exceptions where they're going to have all these little plastic bags. So maybe if we just banned plastic bags out. [1:27:07] But when you bring your meat home from the meat market, you wrap it in you always wrap it in paper. But don't you also have it in plastic? [1:27:16] No, not necessarily. Seriously. [1:27:18] [laughter] My my grandfather was a butcher. Trust me. I didn't wrap it in paper. [1:27:22] It could be an exception to Well, but that's what she tried to get rid of because there were there was exceptions for, you know, carry out [1:27:29] foods. I'm just saying, you know, maybe [laughter] I'm just trying to be creative in a way that we're not penalizing our businesses, our people, [1:27:36] cuz I don't want them to look at it as we're going to tax you on this or it's another one of those fines. [1:27:42] But maybe if we just said no more plastic, which gets rid of the worst offender, keep the paper to and and try it that way. [1:27:51] Can I don't see a majority landing anywhere at this point. Um, and even though we've had a really great [1:27:59] conversation that I appreciate and so appreciate all the work that you guys have done, can we maybe um take this to our neighbors, see if there's an [1:28:07] appetite for doing a more regional approach and then report back? Is that okay? [1:28:12] I I I do Oh, since I started talking, I'm sorry. [1:28:17] I you know, I do think I mean I know the shock I felt literally I felt shocked. I was like, "No, no, you can't discontinue [1:28:25] the orange." You know, but do not I'm the only one who had that reaction. I think other people I was shocked by it, too. [1:28:33] The the you know, it was just a easy easy way to to deal with it and and uh and you felt like you were doing [1:28:40] something. Um I I'm just saying that I think other I think this will be a wakeup call, right? So, let let's let that kind of [1:28:48] ripple out and we'll check in with our neighbors and then we'll be back and sorry that there's no closure on this tonight. But I But we're not giving up on the issue. [1:28:57] I'm not giving up, but we just we just need to do more. Yes. [1:29:01] Yeah. And as part of your research, can you also see if you can find out if there what if North somehow feels or or they can tell or not that there was an [1:29:09] impact on the businesses? that people actually not shopping at their grocery stores because of this or in the end people said yeah I'm going to go to the [1:29:18] next door a neighborhood but then after a while they got tired of it because of the extra gas and the extra time they go you know what I'll pay the 10 cents I mean I don't know what what do they [1:29:27] know about this legitimate concern because they're they made this choice they must have some data whether it's happening or not [1:29:35] right okay we wait one more yes I I mean I I'm really intrigued by this ban banning the plastic because I [1:29:41] think New York has banned plastic plastic. San Francisco, I'm pretty sure. [1:29:46] I mean, New York City and uh getting [laughter] I mean, let's find out. [1:29:53] They banned it. And I I think this is a you know, just rather than this painful slow [1:30:00] process or whatever, just go to the meat of it and spend time in the heart of it. Yeah. The heart of it. [1:30:07] Yeah, that's my Okay. Okay. Thank you. Um, appreciate it. Thanks you guys. Thanks very much. Sorry to stick around so long. [1:30:16] Um, do before we wrap up, is there like specific additional data? You've asked your questions. Anybody else? I think we're good. [1:30:27] Okay. [1:30:27] I I would like to just know about a plastic bag band. It's really hard to say that one sentence, right? [1:30:34] I guess one other thing might be hard to get. I like councelor Tapia's thought around sort of the ultimate accretive benefit to the business by not having [1:30:43] the cost of bags in their P&L is would be interesting. I don't know how much detail we can get around that, but that could be interesting. [1:30:49] By the way, the New York ban does have exemptions for restaurant and takeout food delivery bags and uncooked meat and [1:30:56] fish and bulk produce and prescription drugs and trash and food storage and newspaper bags. So, I mean, at least that there's [1:31:03] exceptions, but at least not the majority. [1:31:06] I mean, the sense of it when you go is that you're only going to get a paper bag. So, right. Yeah. [1:31:12] Also, sorry. And also, um, what it really would cost like a family of four. [1:31:17] I don't know if the five bags I feel like 10 or 15 bags of groceries is the way to look at to look at that. That's how I did my this afternoon. [1:31:26] Yeah. We had like eight bags a day when we had everybody at home. Okay. Thanks very much. Thank you guys. [1:31:34] Appreciate it. Thank you. [1:31:35] Um with that, I'm seeking a motion to go into close session uh for purposes of setting a price for sale or lease of property and also for person just purchase. [1:31:46] um and personnel pursuant to 5CS120/2C6 and actually it's five and two but two is [1:31:55] not personnel it's um collective negotiations thank you collective bargaining negotiations for so two and five [1:32:04] for purchase of property what she said yeah right you need a motion is that or do you need a second [1:32:12] I need a motion I cannot repeat [1:32:14] [laughter] [1:32:15] And I'll do a second one of us. [1:32:19] Thank you. Will the clerk call the vote, please? Council member center. I councilman. Hi. Council member Ross. Hi. Topia. [1:32:27] Hi. Hi. Hi. Six eyes. No. We'll go into close.